144408-does-it-stay-like-this
Content In dungeons and raids you will always have to rely on your team members. No need to be "on point" until Vet Dungeons and raids, but they all require a majority of the party to be good with mechanics and coordinate their efforts. Expeditions and Adventures are less punishing, and expeditions can be done with a group that doesn't have to be good and Adventures require less coordination than dungeons. | |} ---- ---- ---- They don't need to be perfect, but you can't carry 8 interrupts yourself and dish out 50k DPS while tanking the boss at the same time. If you don't like cooperation and teamwork, the dungeon content is probably not for you. It changes of course when you run with guildies and get used to the dungeons and have better gear. We never focus on anything, we just run through because I KNOW that my guildmates will not step in red, interrupt when needed and that everyone will not throw all their interrupts. Instead we can trashtalk in ts, have fun and just relax in dungeons / genetic archives | |} ---- ---- Never said he was hard but the fact that I have to kick ppl in a beginner's instance pisses me off. I have no problem pulling close to maximum possible DPS but I'm not stupid enough to think that random ppl who game not as a challenge but as a way to relax want to. Edited October 20, 2015 by Muffi88 | |} ---- Housing system is best in the genre, lots of exploration / collection / completion activities. There's new content fairly consistently every couple months, expeditions and adventures are quite fun, the world quests and open world events are also pretty fun. There are challenges, achievements, crafting, etc etc etc. I know a lot of players who've played since launch and never stepped foot in dungeons or raids and still have an awesome time. Just depends what you like I suppose. | |} ---- ---- At 50? Just one or two things: Housing, Expeditions, Veteran Dungeons, Regular Dungeons, Adventures, Veteran Adventures, World Bosses, Raiding, PvP, Veteran Expeditions... Contracts... Umm.. I think that covers everything I can think of off the top of my head. | |} ---- Discoveries, rare mob hunting and pet collecting. Note that Discoveries can drop nice costume pieces and pets. Rare mobs drop very nice decor and if you're lucky enough to find a legendary mob and kill it, you'll have some other decor and epic gear. | |} ---- PVP: World PVP and BG PVE: Dailys, 5man, shiphand, and all instance on VEt same as normal. And raids. The game is heavily based on Dailys | |} ---- This game may not be for you then. The protostar dungeon is designed to teach people the mechanics of the game: Don't stand in red and interrupt armor. All the bosses are about what the length of normal bosses would be in dungeons past level 20 and is meant to be endurance training to help out with that. The 'dungeon' content in this game is not meant for casual play. You actually have to be on the ball and you have to rely on your teammates. Scary thing when I heal and don't take an interrupt because I have to rely on people to do that job, but when it gets done it makes my life focusing on healing better. If you want dungeon-esque content without most the BS, do adventures and expeditions. They are like dungeons but have their own twist on things and are significantly easier. | |} ---- I think fps mmos are more of your thing. Edited October 20, 2015 by xRaymanx | |} ---- this probably..just talked to my GF she's fine with not doing raids/vet dungeons so yeah, I guess I'll just stick to PvP/casualcontent then for once. Is there any working DPSmeter? | |} ---- ---- YOU forgot DAILYS ! And more DAILYS! And even more DAILYS NO OTHER WAY to get rep but dailys :P Dont really like dailys ;D | |} ---- i found this that seems to be updated. http://www.curse.com/ws-addons/wildstar/228503-vortex-meter | |} ---- Vortex Meter | |} ---- ---- ---- In short, no, it doesn't stay like you described. It sounds to me like your group was lacking personal experience with the content. Really, it's like any other MMO in that respect. At the lower levels people are still wrapping their heads around the basics. As you level though, you'll find more people who have progressed past that part of the learning phase and dungeon runs will get progressively smoother. Just stick with it and try to share what you learn along the way. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- And bear in mind that the rune-use quest that you get at level 15 10 directs you to create a health-boost rune, not a DPS-boost rune. Not only is level 10 earlier than the game teaches you anything about runecrafting and runing gear, when you are taught, you will be taught to tailor away from DPS and into survivability, while leveling. Edit: Note that I've only been playing at ridiculously late at night thus far, and for short bursts, so have yet to actually group up for an instance I have spent some time told by the game that I was waiting for a second for the leveling instances, unsuccessfully. As such, I've no experience in the level 10 instance to offer any comparison or opinion in that regard. Edited October 20, 2015 by Gnapoleon | |} ---- I actually agree, as silly as it sounds. However, a level 10 instance should not be tuned to required runes to beat the dps check. This should be a taste of basic mechanics, not a real "test". Most people have a very limited understanding of the game at level 10, and may have not even seen a rune station. Can you even rune gear that early? | |} ---- You can get rep from contracts and from non-daily quests as well as killing mobs in specific places. Generally speaking I don't like dailies. But in W* I actually really enjoy a good number of them. Especially the dailies for the world events (Tree / Starr Comm) | |} ---- Again, it wasn't like this pre-F2P- so I imagine it's a stat conversion issue. Before F2P, the dungeon was very easy and people had no problem overcoming the "dps check". They just need to give Wrathbone less health and the entire instance would be fine. Neither Stormtalon nor KV seem to suffer from this problem. Edit: actually, I'm going to backtrack. I think quite a few of the mobs need less health. The TTK on several was longer than it should have been. Specifically I remember the robots in the second area taking quite a bit of time. Edited October 20, 2015 by SlyJeff | |} ---- ---- Ive personally never used a DPS meter because i know my rotation folows common sense.Im sure yall are doing ok :P | |} ---- Wouldn't really work for slingers, but good idea overall :) | |} ---- Sticking runes in gear that's going to be replaced within an hour is just a fail mechanic, IMO. The only people that should have an excuse are those on PvP servers with their open gank rules. If runes are now essential to do instanced content while levelling guess what's going to happen? If you guessed that they'll rune up you're sadly mistaken. They'll just not do instanced content because it's #hardcore. You only need the rune stations to craft runes. Everything else can be managed by right-clicking the item and selecting Edit Runes. Yes even re-rolling and adding slots. | |} ---- Well, and the gear needs sockets :) I wasn't sure that level 10 gear had places to put runes. Regarding runing while leveling- I found it to be cheap to do and made me feel OP. I didn't feel necessary from a DPS standpoint. However, when healing I quickly ran out of focus. A few quick runes for focus pool and recovery cured all that ailed me. Not commenting whether that is good or bad design, but it definitely made a difference. | |} ---- You could extend this logic into an argument to just not even bother doing the leveling dungeons at all, as the rewards you gain from them are replaced pretty easily after a level or two. This would be ok if the leveling dungeons were an easier diversion from question/grinding that offered you a good amount of experience (like WoW), OR, offered much better rewards that wouldn't be replaced with a quest green in 2 levels. As it stands now, if I'm leveling an alt I just skip all of the leveling dungeons. I could spend 90 minutes in ST and MAYBE clear it at level 20. Or I could just spend 90 minutes questing and gain 5 more levels and come out farther ahead both in terms of level and gear. I guess the argument against this is that you find the dungeons fun. Then more power to you. Go hog wild. | |} ---- You actually get a TON of XP in a normal STL run, and it takes far less than 90 minutes. I didn't have a single group fail this last time around (post F2P). Also, that rune from Stormtalon is pretty nice and I used it all the way to 50. Yes, I burned 10 service tokens extracting it from leveling gear. Don't judge me! I also didn't replace the gear I got from STL for several levels. | |} ---- They did fix the experience gains from dungeons before F2P. I'll bet they're insane now but so is levelling. That's the problem, levelling (and pvp) is far more efficient than dungeons unless you've got a group of old-hands. My point is: Making runes essential to levelling dungeon success adds yet another disincentive to running levelling instances. | |} ---- Basically every MMO out currently. The housing is definitely MUCH bigger. But aside from the housing, it's pretty much every other MMO end game once you finish gearing up. Fashion hunts and achievement pursuits. xD The dungeons are fun but suck when you hit bad pug groups. The biggest issue is, yes you can learn and run with guildies. But not all hardcore vets are fans of new players. It's already been seen on the forums of hardcore vets telling new players to research, watch videos and know a dungeon before they enter. The point if playing a game is to experience it and learn and to just have fun. c_c Most of us didn't enjoy researching things in school or college and I am sure most of us don't want to do it for a game. But when these players who struggle hit end game, and even with help not everyone will be good/great, I think that's when Carbine will need to make a decision to stay as is or change going forward. If they stay and a lot of people struggle it will lose players. If they stay as they are they will lose casuals. It will become a numbers game and the bigger side will win because they need to keep a strong player base, hence the whole reason for going F2P. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- There are quests in the starter zones at about level 4 that reward you with a pair of shoulder armor and a rune, it serves to teach players that runes can be applied to gear at any point provided appropriate runes are available. Lack of rune stations is pertinent, though, and Wrathbone is a far too strict DPS check for basic Protogames. Gear shouldn't need to be runed that early on, though it would likely serve to have something that impresses the importance of runing gear moreso than basic instruction of how to rune it. Edited October 20, 2015 by Mumboejumboh | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Followed instructions, ended up with Datascape gear. What do? Ok, this bit is straight up ignorant. Medic's bringing 3 interrupts is stupid, not to mention impossible at level 10. Medic's always bring one, and v.v.v.v.rarely in raids do we bring 2. Stalkers used to run 2/3 with no problem but I believe the pre-GA Runeset build is now also a 1 Interrupt build. At low level the viable CC machines are Warriors (they can bring Flashbang, Grapple, Kick), everyone else brings 2. | |} ---- This may be true for veteran content, but it is a total nonsense for starter / leveling content. When you are just starting out in a game and leveling your first character you very likely haven't made many friends or contacts within the game. Starter / leveling dungeons should be all about making friends, not requiring you to bring friends to be successful. Leveling dungeons need to be PUG friendly. Veteran content less so, by then players who want to run this type of content should have found a suitable guild and hopefully populated their friends list a bit. | |} ---- ---- ---- The Boss stops moving (so, no threat concerns)..and if I remember right.. he stops attacking to while casing his 'kill me or else' spell.. so..no healing needed.. why wouldn't you bring a build to maximize the damage contribution of all players? Besides.. at level 10.. it's not like anyone is really using a full set of support gear or pure support builds either.. | |} ---- So, you think having 1 (or 2) players not contributing to the boss fight would make it better? That seems... odd. It's like bring an off-tank for fights that need it.. keeping a DPS ability on your LAS isn't 'horrible' or 'gamebreaking'... | |} ---- This happened in my first pug since returning last week. Wiped a couple of times, then the healer swapped in some DPS and we cleared it -- though it was close. I don't remember having any trouble with that part when I was playing a few months ago. I'm not one to ask for dungeon nerfs, but this certainly seems like it should be toned down -- it is a tutorial, after all! Edited October 20, 2015 by ThomPetres | |} ---- Because "bring a build to maximize" shouldn't be the standard for beating a level 10 boss. | |} ---- ---- No. I think that a learning dungeon for level 10 toons that really are still figuring out even basic moves shouldn't be expected much beyond "point the weapon at the right target and keep hitting it" in order to win. | |} ---- Particularly given that the dungeon itself is trying to teach playing the Trinity, exactly right. Mixed messages are not a teaching tool. | |} ---- | |} ---- There are rune stations in every major questing hub in the leveling zones. I believe you can also mark them on your mini map if you are having trouble finding them (someone want to fact check me on the mini map thing). But yeah, definitely plenty of rune stations. | |} ---- From my understanding yes... is how the dungeon content is designed, its unforgiving, harsh, and will kick your ass but you know what? thats not a bad thing... do people just forget how brutal content use to be? I recall WoW BC and getting to the first dungeon in the hellfire plains area, and constantly getting my ass kicked with pugs because, you know it was unforgiving... stand in the fire? you died and fast. Tank didnt pull the boss away from the group? everyone got roasted. Protostar academy had me watching rotations, throwing my shield on the tank (i'm a dps but i figured an extra shield on the tank couldn't hurt) and learning when to interrupt each boss and you know it felt pretty good to have content like that again. I think when i realized how easy content had gotten is when WoW ceased to interest me anymore, was no threat anymore, was just stand there and hit 1-5 and /yawn. If one thing wildstar does is keep me attentive... always watching always paying attention, always avoiding something. As DPS i cant go to sleep, i have to actually move into healing zones... its chaotic, its hectic, and man was alot of fun! However on the flip side... i can say its also SUPER frustrating... getting that group that just cant burn down wrathbone in his rage timer is REALLY frustrating! but not like this is a new mechanic... in fact its a very old mechanic and for people have never played an mmo... i'd say its good to show them this mechanic here. | |} ---- ---- OP's issue had nothing to do with interrupts. I also don't know why you'd be glad that the tutorial stages of the game are doing a bad job of being tutorials and are "weeding" people out when the game was once suffering from a quickly shrinking playerbase. Not something I'd be chest thumping over. | |} ---- Basically - if you do these two simple things, that level 10 dungeon is so silly easy you can almost AFK the rest of it... Get in a PUG of players who know these things and you WILL see them AFK some parts. There are a few places where all kinds of things "Appear" to be happening but if you are watching your screen you will quickly notice you can just stand ----> x there. And ignore it all. :) That final mechanic of the start dungeon is NOT an enrage timer in the normal sense. It is a burn phase timer. It doesn't trigger because the fight took to long, it triggers when the boss hits a certain percentage. All people have to do is spam their attacks and stand in place - and it dies. It is there just to be sure no one is trying to get carried by AFKing the fight... I have saved PUGs from that by having one spammable attack on my action bar when there as a healer... | |} ---- BC wasn't difficult. Just arbitary. Much like the core game. You could do even heroic dungeons with a PuG if you had the optimal class setup. Beyond that, the rules were simple. Pull only one group. Mark what the tank will handle. Crowd control the rest. Proceed to stand in place most of the time, doing your rotation. Re-apply crowd control when needed. Dont stand in the obvious and static fire. Done. Raids were even easier due to numbers. The boss mechanics were simple and often binary. Nowhere near Wildstar bosses. Why only so few players saw raids? Why dungeons werent run so much? Tedium. The content wasn't brutal or required a particularly high skill level. You could keyboard turn and ability click your way through them. Just a lot of time commitment. Time it takes to complete the attunements, to farm consumables, to farm gear, to read up on the best builds and tactics for that particular instance, to assemble a group, to get to the instance, to buff up, to slog through the trash painfully slowly, to kill the bosses with too much HP, to corpserun when you died. Raids were the same except you needed to get 10 or 25 people to agree to the same time commitment and to commit to it on schedule. I was a raider. Once we actually got a raid running, it went well. Herding people in there and keeping them motivated enough to continue farming was the real difficulty. I don't think any game should aim for that kind of challenge. Thankfully, Wildstar started to move away from it. In that spirit, the tutorial dungeon's last boss really shouldn't require players to either overgear the instance or have the tank and healer enter with some weird quasi-dps build (contrary to their supposed roles) in order to complete the burn phase. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Well then I guess my friends who have never played an mmo before are just naturals. I didn't realize this was too difficult for people so I'll just leave the discussion to you guys. Hopefully things go to your benefit. But you definitely don't need proper rotations, gear, and runes for academy at level. You mostly just need people pressing buttons. Edited October 21, 2015 by Frosthaven | |} ---- I don't know. Pre the F2P patch the enrage was not hard to kill. When I did it last week, I was actually overleveled for the instance (level 26 I believe) and went in as heals. After two wipes with everyone alive and still missing the enrage, I asked the group to let me DPS. Which worked fine. But of course, even rallied down my DPS was MUCH higher than a typical level 10. But I'd noticed the TTK on previous mobs was very high (I was running out of focus, and I'd been able to heal STL just fine with my gear). So there's a good chance that the DPS I was running with were bad. But that's kind of the point- there's a lot of bad people's first time through, and this is supposed to be a learning dungeon. For those of you new to the game, you may not realize it, but this dungeon is a very new addition. Originally your first dungeon was STL and it smashed people. So they added this dungeon to teach people what tank/heal/dps is, what interrupts are, how to break tethers, etc. This really is supposed to be a "hold your hand" dungeon. So maybe if people don't realize that, I can see why they'd think this should be tuned the way it is. But I've heard of multiple groups disbanding on this when they get to Wrathbone. That's just not OK for a dungeon that is supposed to be teaching you the basics. Edited October 21, 2015 by SlyJeff | |} ---- I think your friends just plain use their brains, unlike approx 40% of earths population. Lucky them huh. :rolleyes: | |} ---- ---- I'm actually pretty confident they will. | |} ---- ---- In fairness, we have no way of knowing if they even DID protostar academy--or, just as likely, if they did it with a team where someone slotted a second interrupt to simply circumvent the need for everyone to do what they're supposed to do there. If people are going to learn to do it themselves, it is essential that they not get carried through it. | |} ---- Not only that, sometimes i think that some over-geared 50s drop by and just near-solo everything. :rolleyes: I think we need to make this one exclusively for new players without any 50s on their accounts. | |} ---- ---- Sorry but yes you can, as long as those abilities do damage... I have run it many times both before and after f2p. Yes it takes more damage now, but I have still only seen one group fail at it. That was a group where the tank was higher DPS than many of the DPS - someone was failing to even bother. It does get easier if you spam a good chain, like building ke on warrior then burning it. But its not too restrictive and people should have read the tooltips on their skills as they got them, not an unreasonable request. Edited October 21, 2015 by Kichwas | |} ---- ---- ---- Well, as yasfan has said, Carbine has the metrics. Our experiences are different in this regard, so we'll just see :) For my part, I haven't struggled with it. But I've already got a good handle on WS :) | |} ---- | |} ----